No Optimus support means NO Nvidia at all or no dynamic switching?

[MichaelS]

If they claim that is possible to use CUDA with Optimus. I would know how i could do this?
For instance if i write and compile a CUDA-file (in a Ubuntu 10.04 enviroment) this file does not find a CUDA device (cudaGetDeviceCount returns nothing)? I am preparing a short seminar about Cuda programming at my university and i am not able to test my example programs und compare the performance with the same CPU -programs. Unfortunately i have to give the information that many nvidia-laptops are not usefull for scientific programming under CUDA because they are not able to use Linux. So please Aaron if you can give us a hint how we can use CUDA, give it!

Thanks
Michael

[Dragoran]

Originally Posted by MichaelS

If they claim that is possible to use CUDA with Optimus. I would know how i could do this?
For instance if i write and compile a CUDA-file (in a Ubuntu 10.04 enviroment) this file does not find a CUDA device (cudaGetDeviceCount returns nothing)? I am preparing a short seminar about Cuda programming at my university and i am not able to test my example programs und compare the performance with the same CPU -programs. Unfortunately i have to give the information that many nvidia-laptops are not usefull for scientific programming under CUDA because they are not able to use Linux. So please Aaron if you can give us a hint how we can use CUDA, give it!

Thanks
Michael

It doesn't work see: http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/show...5&postcount=22

So basically if you want to use Linux don't buy an Optimius Laptop (yet?).

[shrinux]

Originally Posted by AaronP

On laptops that don't have that hardware mux (i.e. where the display is hard-wired to the Intel display engine), then you currently cannot use the NVIDIA GPU for display, though you should still be able to use it for CUDA and offscreen rendering.

Hello AaronP. Are you there ?!

How in the earth can we use that thing you call CUDA and offscreen rendering without a running driver?!!!!!

In my case I don't need this mux thing since I'm able to switch intel/nvidia trhough the Bios. At least I need a working driver for YOUR graphics card.

I don't care about CUDA. I don't care about offscreen. Just give me the driver. PLEAAAASE!

[holzweg]

Hello,

unfortunately I can only support the statement of gpuser and MichaelS: I've already sent back the last notebook I bought that included Nvidia optimus technology, and right now it seems the only possibility to me to by a Ati equipped device.

I can also confirm MichaelS' statement: In theoretical siences there's a big community of linux users that are using Nvidia GPUs for simulations. So I guess Nvidia will loose a noticeable part of their customers, if the advantages of a Nvidia card cannot be used on linux systems. Like me.

best regards

[metasoarous]

This is really a shame. I just bought a new N53SV because I had heard that versions of nVidia on earlier N-series laptops worked right out of the box just fine. Now I find that this isn't the case with this new version. I'll reiterate the sentiment already expressed here, which is that Linux users should not be marginalized. More and more people are switching to Linux as they see what it can do and come to understand it's advantages, especially, as pointed out, within the scientific community - the kind of people who tend to be interested in the higher end products are more likely to be using them on more customizable Linux systems. nVidia is shooting themselves in the foot on this, and it's really a shame to watch, not just because it's a stupid move by a company that is otherwise making good products, but also because there are so many individuals who are going to be left by the wayside on this (such as myself - this computer doesn't have a return policy to deal with non computer default issues).

Super Lame! Please consider offering support here!

[pigeon]

Originally Posted by AaronP

On laptops that don't have that hardware mux (i.e. where the display is hard-wired to the Intel display engine), then you currently cannot use the NVIDIA GPU for display, though you should still be able to use it for CUDA and offscreen rendering.

We currently do not have plans to support display on Optimus systems where the display is connected to the Intel hardware, but as you said, it's something we'll probably end up having to look into in the future, to at least provide some basic display sharing. I can't promise anything, though.

Just wanted to make sure.

For this non-hardware-mux case, does that mean there is (currently) no way to use the NVIDIA GPU even if I don't want to use the Intel gpu at all?

I have an Alienware M11X R2 and it seems to be this case.

Thanks.

[syncom]

I bought a ASUS k52Jc with the optimus 310M. it had an option to switch between windows 7 and reserved. i have updated the bios and now i cant even get nouveau to load only intel. im very unhappy with nvidia. since my 3 year leave from using a computer and getting back into linux awhile ago all ive heard is pressure to use nvidia cards, like "no worries so much better". i went on a shopping spree to pick up a computer its been forever, i see nvidia\intel i think OPEN SOURCE and NO WORRIES NVIDIA. well nvidia thanks alot because now im stuck using my 2nd favorite os ONLY.

[stoppete]

Well, well... I will probably receive my new Dell XPS 15 tomorrow. I bought that particular laptop just because it had an nVidia card, that I trusted would be hassle-free on linux, which I use exclusively.

Apparently, all I'll have to do when I get it is to check if there is a switch to use the GT525M only in the BIOS. Since, from what I've read, it's highly unlikely there will be one, I'll just send the laptop back and get a full refund.

Never again an nVidia card. I'll also discourage anyone from getting one too... What's the point of spending the money if you can't actually use it? Yep, it's as simple as that.
Too bad for them, they won't see my money any time soon. I'll just spend them on some other product with better (well, existent...) Linux support.

[LLStarks]

Originally Posted by stoppete

Well, well... I will probably receive my new Dell XPS 15 tomorrow. I bought that particular laptop just because it had an nVidia card, that I trusted would be hassle-free on linux, which I use exclusively.

Apparently, all I'll have to do when I get it is to check if there is a switch to use the GT525M only in the BIOS. Since, from what I've read, it's highly unlikely there will be one, I'll just send the laptop back and get a full refund.

Never again an nVidia card. I'll also discourage anyone from getting one too... What's the point of spending the money if you can't actually use it? Yep, it's as simple as that.
Too bad for them, they won't see my money any time soon. I'll just spend them on some other product with better (well, existent...) Linux support.

There's no BIOS option.

You would've better spent your money on a 6770M in the new HP dv6t SE/QE.

[mtron]

Originally Posted by cedricv

1) no support for dynamic adaptive GPU switching, which is the raison d'etre of Optimus : bringing substantial power savings.

AronP answered this already. There is currently no way to do this. Reason is the architecture of Xorg and the nvidia binary blob. Both would need work to make this possible. Xorg might get the needed bits via a GSOC Project, but it seems nvidia won't make their driver support it before Xorg is up to the task.

Originally Posted by cedricv

2) no support at all, the NVidia GPU is completely OFF and cannot be ever turned ON under Linux.

This depends of the hardware in your Laptop. If the nvidia chip is wired to the display device directly it's useable and you can switch via a reboot between the integrated GPU and the nvidia GPU.

Also most Laptops do not offer a BIOS setting for this any more but use ACPI Calls to switch gpu's. For us End Users this leaves us pretty stranded in the shops because there is no way to tell from the outside (or from inside the BIOS) if a Model will work with both chips. The only way to test this is to prepare yourself a USB stick with a live image that has the nvidia drivers integrated and try to boot it. Laptops with Optimus AND a directly wired nvidia Chip use the nvidia gpu as default in linux. So if you can boot with the Live Medium to Xorg you know that nvidia will work.

To switch between the intel and nvidia gpu's you need to find the used acpi calls. In the model i'm having those calls put the Laptop into 3 different VGA Modes: Mode 1 Activates only the intel GPU and turns the nvidia GPU completly off (it's not visible via lspci and won't draw any power); Mode 2 enables the Nvidia GPU and will turn off the intel GPU (lspci reports only the nvidia gpu in this mode) and finally mode 3 enables both GPU's (this is the traditinal Optimus Mode. Both GPU's are visible via lspci but only the intel GPU is useable and the nvidia chip just draws power and does nothing.

The problem is that no Vendor publishes those acpi calls so you are left to either reverse engineer the published windows binary that does this Mode switching (Reverse Engineering a binary might get yourself into trouble => DMCA!) or dump your DSDT info (via acpidump) into a file and try those 100 of calls until you stumble upon the call that does the magic.

Once you found the magic acpi call you can write yourself a shutdown script that enables the desired GPU for the next boot, prepares the Xorg.conf file and fiddles with the glx libraries.

We managed to get all this in place for the Asus EeePC 1015PN but the principle should work for all laptops with directly wired nvidia chips.

Of course this is only a workaround until Xorg gets the code to use optimus and nvidia decides to extend their binary driver.

[elLolo]

There is a third option for Nvidia: no supporting dynamic switching but only the Nvidia card and managing the Intel card like a bridge for data. It is probably more realistic than dynamic switching...

Personally, I would be very surprised that Nvidia does not try something to make its cards work on professional laptops such has Dells for example. At my company, we usually do not buy desktop computers but Dell's laptop and we prefer Nvidia products. The developed software may be later used on 2 QuadroPlex connected to 8 + 3 high-res projectors (1920x1080) in a virtual reality center (a CAVE-like).

Of course if Nvidia is unable to propose drivers, our next purchase will mainly consider AMD products... and our partners will probably follow us

[rdusan]

I think this is a case for reporting nVidia to consumer protection agencies in US/EU!

It has passed more than year and nVidia did nothing to inform costumers that they cannot use their GPUs if there's Optimus technology with it. We still see here and elsewhere confused newcomers with already bought laptops. What if someone can not return the laptop?

Just look at the official page - http://www.nvidia.com/object/optimus_technology.html
it says about battery consumption, automatic performance something... only in 'learn more' can be seen that it has something with switching cards;
the whole page nothing says that it is Windows only technology, that can be learned only in whitepaper (and officially unofficial forum user support, like AaronP)

Lets say Ok, its good enough (as Linux user one can assume that it will not work) BUT there's nothing about making GPU unusable at any way! The only way to learn that is to read whole whitepaper and know X server design and so conclude that GPU cannot be accessed?!
Also, look at driver support list, there are listed all cards which are sold with Optimus, without any marks or warnings. This is misleading.

I think that nVidia deliberately doesn't clearly state this, so if someone agrees with me and lives in US/EU (because I don't) please notify national consumer protection agency they will force nVidia to do something if they can.